DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

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gaudeus
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DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by gaudeus » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:51 pm

Dear guys,
I am new member of this forum and so I would like to ask for some help.
Now I have possibility to buy one new project of 350-1 NZ. There are main parts only as a frame, complete fork back fork, wheels, fenders....

But there is one thing which I don´t understand.
Frame is late version (about missing dataplate and no hole for lock) but there is no serial number. I think serial number is not grinded, place is unbroken. What do you think about it?
Only one letter which I found on back parts of frame is "G" letter.

Image

Image

I am glad to read your opinion.
Thank you
Gaudeus
Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by Frank » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:01 pm

Hi,

Could be a russian IZH-350 frame, they do not have the frame number stamped on the main frame. Is there any part number on the frame?

//Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by gaudeus » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:13 pm

Hello,
no, I don´t find any other numbers. But can be there, because I was focused to find dkw serial number. Izh frame can be correct opinion. Can somebody else confirm this?
Frank, thank you for ast reply.
Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by Frank » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:23 pm

Try to check the rear frame, on IZH-350 the frame number should be located on the left side above the toolbox and should start with a letter, see this topic: http://www.dkw-nz.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164

//Frank
wanatu
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by wanatu » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:45 pm

It is a frame of 350 Izh
I have a motorcycle as well as dkw nz 350/1 of 1945, hence my information
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by SMOG » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:24 pm

Hello Gaudeus,
I dont think that is an ISH frame because the "G" doesnt give in the russian ABC. The russian "G" look differently. It can be that the frame is built alfer the war or in the end of the war. please send more pictures from other parts of the frame. Thanks Sven
Bis denn SVEN
---------------------
DKW NZ 350-1 (1944)
MZ RT 125-2 (1959)
MZ RT 125-3 (1959)
dkwkri
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by dkwkri » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:06 pm

Hello.It is frame dkw nz 350 or 250 (1938-1940) 1st version.
wanatu
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by wanatu » Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:55 pm

dkwkri wrote:Hello.It is frame dkw nz 350 or 250 (1938-1940) 1st version.
Image
Pictured are all kinds of frames occurring in the DKW NZ 250-350 including this number in the range 608501-612000
frame with vintage 38-40 have the lock, others are studded with the serial number as well as part numbers - n 350/43 and NZ 350-1
I also have frames from the Izh 350 - which looks like the frame from this topic.
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by M.Schlenger » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:28 pm

Hello,

I also possess a frame that lacks a serial no. and shows a strange marking at the rear end on the right hand side.

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131228/nj6gxr6n.jpg

There is a plate mounted at the front end of the frame stating it is a DKW 350 NZ built in 1939, however, the serial no. 75835 apparently never existed - must be a fake, therefore.

http://s7.directupload.net/images/131228/jg2egowx.jpg

Does anybody know the meaning of the marking or at least, whether such markings were common on DKW frames or on IZH frames, only?

Thanks
Michael
Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by Frank » Sat Dec 28, 2013 12:56 pm

Hi Michael,

The type plate looks very original, but the chassi number is strange. Could it be so that someone has missed to type the first digit?

In 1939 there were among others, chassi numbers between 472001-490000. Could it be so that the first "4" is missing and it should be 475835?

I have also a type plate from a 1940 bike that is missing the manufacturing year.

A first model NZ frame is easy to spot from a IZH frame. If it has a place for the steering lock, its a DKW NZ 250/350 frame between 1938-1941 and on those frames the chassis number should be on the left rear fork.

I have some early NZ frames and I will check out if there is some strange markings on them.


//Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by M.Schlenger » Sat Dec 28, 2013 1:35 pm

Hello Frank,
Many thanks for your message - it appears you've solved the riddle!

The frame does have a hole for the steering lock and if one takes a very close look to the plate, one can see traces of an additional figure which might have been very well been a "4". It is a bit more to the left, so as if one slipped while embossing the serial number.

So it is at least probable, that this frame belonged to an original DKW NZ 350 built in 1939 with the frame no. 475835.

What is still unclear, is the meaning of the marking on the rear end of the main frame on the right hand side. I've checked, whether it could be from the cyrillic alphabet, but it isn't.

You would do me great favour, if you looked for similar markings on your early NZ main frames.

Thanks
Michael
Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by Frank » Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:12 pm

Hi again Michael,

I checked out some early frames I have (with place for steering lock) and it seems that there are different kind of stamps in the rear area of the frames.

Some have normal letters, but some have strange signs (not cyrillic). Did not find any sign like yours, but did not either found identical signs on two different different frames (all frames I have, seems to have different signs).

Hard to see them all due to the many layers of colour on the frames.

I dont have any idea about what the signs mean, could it possible be some dating stamp when the frames were pressed from sheet metal, or som date marking when the frames pieces were welded together (or some signs of the persons who welded the frames)???

I am pretty sure your frame is an original NZ frame from -39, I dont see any idea for someone to start to fake an IZH frame into an early NZ frame, there is not any big money in that business (early NZ frames are not that scarce).


//Frank
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Re: DKW 350-1 NZ frame without SN?

Post by M.Schlenger » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:17 pm

Thanks for checking your early frames and for your assessment of mine, Frank.

If there were many different of these cryptic markings at the rear end, it would be indeed a nice idea that they are a kind of maker's mark - similar to those of forgers and stone-masons.

Maybe other NZ owners could also provide the markings on their frames to the forum, in order to get an overview of the markings once used. Or has someone already researched this issue and can provide further information?

Michael
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