Holder for gas mask on NZ350-1 tanks

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

Hello anybody,

as the topic was discussed yet in the german forum several times, I`m going to translate some facts in English, that everybody should know. The topic was discussed here before, but it disappeared in the forum and I hope that Thomas fixes this new topic on top, that it never disappeares like the old one.

viewtopic.php?t=40

We were discussing the question if there were the holder for the gas mask built in in any bike beside the pre-series bikes, pictured in the manual.

Thomas cited a polish parts seller who said "In a few years, noone will know what was original whether not."

To avoid this, here are some facts:

When there was a holder on your bike, there must be welded screwholes in your tank, as the holder was screwed on the tank, or the screwholes were dislodged, but even that can be seen.

The late war NZ 350-1 (late 1944/early 1945) never had such holders anyway, there is a welding seam in the centerline of the tank, on which no holder could be fixed without grinding it to zero level. My welding seam is 100% intact, and any other welding seam I`ve ever seen on late NZ Tanks too. Just compare to some tanks in original paint seen on Ebay sometimes.

The holder is reproduced a lot, but only after being presented on this site...

In an accident, you would get hardly injured by such a holder in front of you...

The gas mask had to be carried in its box at the back of all soldiers in the early war, it was not allowed to lay it aside in any occasion.

In the late war years, the gas masks were carried in a bag by german soldiers, as the box was to rattly in combat and the belt holders were omitted due to leather shortage, so the old gas mask box weren`t carried anymore. Why should it then be fixed on a motorbike?

Today, the gas mask is only carried by soldiers in training, as the belief goes to that every gas attack is preceded by an appropriate gas warning.
This doctrine is teached in the actual german army, and learnt in WW2.

Think about this, before you destroy a well preserved original tank by fixing a never-existing part like the holder on it!

...or has anybody ever seen a genuine holder fixed on a bike??? Then post it here, please...

[martdapp]

Hello Wilhelm,
Your message contains one interessting sentence;
" has anybody ever seen a genuine holder fixed on a bike??? Then post it here, please."
Actually there are some old original NZ 350-1 Pictures from a manual,
wich shows this holder. It shows only the base, welded and screwed on the tank.
The kind of mounting (by repro's like the batterie-holder) is never proven.
It could be a leather belt or just something complete different,
In fact it is never proven that this holder was for a gasmask !!!
It could be made for another kind of use!
So we will wait till some-one post a picture from a genuine holder or holder-base,
or for some-one who knows the exact use of this holder.





Here pictures from a repro-holder:

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

Hello

martdapp, I own the manual and there are pictures of a holder, but the pictured bike is completely pre-serial and many parts were changed in the following time.

My question is if anyone has a real bike with an original holder...

[mdunn]

Hello

martdapp, I own the manual and there are pictures of a holder, but the pictured bike is completely pre-serial and many parts were changed in the following time.

My question is if anyone has a real bike with an original holder...

I have owned a few DKW's, seen numerous pictures( which late war DKW NZ350-1 pics are few and far inbetween) and not Ever have I seen this original holder on a bike. I have a feeling that this was an artist drawing of what was to come and never happened at all. It was a drawing and thats it, right?

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

The manual shows a retouched photograph, as in most manuals of the thirties to the sixties, and obviously a pre-series bike. But I`m sure it is as said, no one has ever seen an original holder and it were never issued on serial bikes.

[mdunn]

The manual shows a retouched photograph, as in most manuals of the thirties to the sixties, and obviously a pre-series bike. But I`m sure it is as said, no one has ever seen an original holder and it were never issued on serial bikes.

Wilhelm,

Exactly, an Artist retouched drawing. I am sure it was something to come and never happen. Look at DKW during the war, in 1944 and 1945 the Germans were not doing all that great and I am sure short cuts on productions lines increased.

Mike

[thomas591]

That is not completely correct! I have written evidence from a German NZ owner, who confirms that he has an original tank with the mounting plates soldered on it from new. Unfortunately there is nothing fitted to the plates. The mounting plates are similar as the one used to attach the knee pads tpo earlyer NZ's.

So you can't say, that there was never anything fitted to the tank and that this picture was just retouched...

Regards


Thomas

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

That is not completely correct! I have written evidence from a German NZ owner, who confirms that he has an original tank with the mounting plates soldered on it from new. Unfortunately there is nothing fitted to the plates. The mounting plates are similar as the one used to attach the knee pads tpo earlyer NZ's.

So you can't say, that there was never anything fitted to the tank and that this picture was just retouched...

Regards


Thomas

No, on the pre-series bikes were surely some extra-parts, only the photo was retouched for the publication, look at the soft rendering. What about the written evidence? I consider if anyone says "My holder was on the bike when I bought it", it is not really an evidence that it is an original part. There should be some black/white pictures of bikes in WWII with the attached holder. I think Nobody who owns a bike today was with it since the day it was built. Are there any pictures of the tank?

[martdapp]

Such pictures with soft rendering were common in those days.
All pictures in manuals etc. were made the same way.
Often You see a hand or a foot in the pictures.
To my opinion it are no paintings, but how they made such pictures is a question who somebody else perhaps could answer?
Then another question remains, what was the purpose from that "holder"
The Repro Batterie-clamp was never proven as original.
Suggestions that there was a leather belt ?
How was that fit on that holder? I can not see a supply for such belt.
If a gasmask was made on it, then that thing was not fitted well with a leather belt.
It would swing from right to left. The batterie-clamp would avoid this.
The supply on that holder as shown in the manual equals the holding as for a battery-clamp.
The homemade solution could be correct very well after all.
I still hope that some-body could bring in pictures from War-time,or from a original tank with that holder.
Martin

[Lolo]

Hello all,

What do you think about this pics come from the DKWNZ.net ? Don't you think it could be the gaz mask on the tank ??? Picture file

[Wilhelm_Heidkamp]

You`re right, it could be one. But this is a NZ 350/43...

This picture only implies more questions than solving any...
Maybe a front-made improvement? It`s as strange as this NZ 350-1 with a front number plate in 1944/45!

http://www.dkw-nz.net/cms/upload/img_ar ... -33-33.jpg

[martdapp]

The innovated holder on the tank was developed in the pre-series.
So during the time that the type 43 still was manufactered.
Could be that there were trials on the type 43 to.
Could be, could be,.......were is the person who brings confirmation !

[mdunn]

You`re right, it could be one. But this is a NZ 350/43...

This picture only implies more questions than solving any...
Maybe a front-made improvement? It`s as strange as this NZ 350-1 with a front number plate in 1944/45!

http://www.dkw-nz.net/cms/upload/img_ar ... -33-33.jpg

No doubt this picture is a gas mask canister, what we will probably have to wait for is a closer picture of really how this clamp device looked in 1944-45.

[martdapp]

I'm convinced that this part never has excisted !!!
Nobody has seen it as real old part.
During all that time somebody would have react with an org. part.
Martin

[mdunn]

I'm convinced that this part never has excisted !!!
Nobody has seen it as real old part.
During all that time somebody would have react with an org. part.
Martin

martin,

You would think so, I havent seen a real good photo yet of one. The biggest problem with the NZ350-1 is photos. The only NZ350-1 pictures I have ever seen are the ones on this web site and I look all the time and I havent seen anymore.