Nice 350-1 on ebay

Here you can post your DKW NZ 350, 350-1 for sale

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Frank
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Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Frank » Sat May 10, 2014 3:01 pm

Hi

A very nice 350-1 on ebay:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Oldtimer-DKW-NZ- ... 2ed1b90aab

//Frank
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by M.Schlenger » Sun May 11, 2014 1:59 am

Hello Frank,
I've already taken a closer look to that bike. It seems, as if anyone had combined quite a lot of good and original parts to create a "survivor", but I cannot believe the story as such.

Why was this bike not put on the road again after the war? Obviously, nobody would have dared to use it in its original paint in the late 40s or during the 50s. So, where did it spend the last few decades in its current condition? And why?

I don't want to say it is a complete fake, however, it appears, as if someone was trying to make it look authentic and possibly did too much. In particular, a few parts seem to have been added later, for instance the front beam and the part that is holding the speedometer.

Can anyone explain the "signs of wear" on top of the rear fender? To me, they look quite arbitrary. The fuel tank does not look too "convincing", either. Too much "wear" on both sides, the last Wehrmacht user of this bike must have had enormous upper legs to produce such wear...

What is your opinion?

Best regards
Michael
Frank
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Frank » Sun May 11, 2014 9:36 am

Hi Michael,

Very good comments!

I agree with you on that it seems to be some collected, but original parts put together, maybe a bit incomplete 350-1 that has been completed with missing parts from that time period.

The front light seems to be new painted and I am also confused about the strange wear on fuel tank also, but I dont know... I compared it to this picture of a RT125 where the tank is also very starangely worn: download/file.php?id=144&mode=view

About the rear fender, it looks like someone has been too close with a Kärcher and stripped the paint off, looks more like the paint has flaked, than worn off.

I have studied some original wartime parts and it seems that on some parts, the yellow color is very badly attached on the red primer, you can easily scratch away the paint, with a nail or high pressure water. On some other parts, the colour is much more resistent.

I dont know, maybe a result of different paint/painting methods at the sub contractors, manufacturing the parts?

Comments from other forum members?

//Frank
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by fischma11 » Sun May 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Hello NZ friends,

I think ist original dunkelgelb- why not? Found some pictures of this bike in the www.
The pictures are older ones, without headlamp but with original "Tankdeckel."

best regards, martin
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NZ350-1
EL203,EL201,C1,GG400,ETS8
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Wilhelm_Heidkamp » Tue May 13, 2014 12:20 pm

M.Schlenger wrote:Hello Frank,
I've already taken a closer look to that bike. It seems, as if anyone had combined quite a lot of good and original parts to create a "survivor", but I cannot believe the story as such.

Why was this bike not put on the road again after the war? Obviously, nobody would have dared to use it in its original paint in the late 40s or during the 50s. So, where did it spend the last few decades in its current condition? And why?

I don't want to say it is a complete fake, however, it appears, as if someone was trying to make it look authentic and possibly did too much. In particular, a few parts seem to have been added later, for instance the front beam and the part that is holding the speedometer.

Can anyone explain the "signs of wear" on top of the rear fender? To me, they look quite arbitrary. The fuel tank does not look too "convincing", either. Too much "wear" on both sides, the last Wehrmacht user of this bike must have had enormous upper legs to produce such wear...

What is your opinion?

Best regards
Michael
That`s absolute nonsense. It`s a nice bike with overall original paint in the same stage of aging. No put-together at all. Even the tires are original. You haven`t seen an untouched example so far, I guess.
DKW F 102 1965
DKW NZ 350-1 1945
DKW KL C100/C1 Funkwuerfel 1943
DKW GG400 Funkwuerfel
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by fischma11 » Tue May 13, 2014 8:19 pm

Hello wilhelm,
you're right it is a beautiful testimony of history, which has survived in this original state.


regards martin
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by M.Schlenger » Wed May 21, 2014 7:12 pm

Thanks for your kind reply to my post, Wilhelm.

I was just asking how that bike could survive in a state that is supposed to be "untouched". Why wasn' it touched after the war? Where did it spend all these decades? That's what I'd like to know. Unfortunately even you failed to provide an answer...

And, of course, you are right: I haven't seen a 350-1 in really untouched (unrestored) original condition. Where can I?

Many thanks
Michael

P.S. Whoever bought this bike on ebay could most certainly provide us with more details, images etc. At least I'd love to learn more about WH-NZs in "original" condition.
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Wilhelm_Heidkamp » Fri May 23, 2014 10:36 am

That only proves you haven`t found the forum search yet. There have been shown more than 5 well preserved bikes in original condition here until now - some of them owned by forum users. Some of the bikes were found in Czech Republic and Poland, stored in barns and sheds, some were found in Germany. They often were not driven at all after the war and only stored - but some of them also were driven in original paint. Collecting is no post-war invention. Easily such a former Czech bike could have been imported to Germany before.

And even if no one answers the questions that afflict you (which btw. are a little simple-hearted) - there are such bikes out there. If you believe it or not. The point is to learn keep a good one from a fake paint resto. That`s all.

If you personally believe that there are no survivors that doesn´t bother me - but then just keep out of the discussion and let the new owner and the other forum members enjoy that fine well preserved example of a bike. Which it is for sure.
DKW F 102 1965
DKW NZ 350-1 1945
DKW KL C100/C1 Funkwuerfel 1943
DKW GG400 Funkwuerfel
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by M.Schlenger » Sat May 24, 2014 12:32 am

Hello Wilhelm,
Many thanks for your reply, even it was not overly polite, as you will concede. Maybe, it was just one of these days…

It may surprise you, but I do have studied the presentations of NZs in more or less original condition in this forum. I understand that there are some bikes around which could be restored to their former glory, as they had been simply resprayed after the war with the original paint being preserved beneath. I absolutely admire the meticulous work of the owners of such gems. I also find the reported history of these machines convincing (abandoned somewhere in spring 1945, hidden in a shed for some time, and put back on the road later with some modifications due to the circumstances).

However, you may have overlooked the fact that I was asking for a similarly convincing story in case of that particular bike recently offered on eBay. As I pointed out, I am eager to learn how to differentiate a true survivor from a fake or a bike that was assembled recently using a sound basis and more or less original parts.

Wouldn’t you agree that it is just reasonable to ask a few questions like:
Where was the bike abandoned in 1945 (East or West Germany, Poland, Italy, Czecheslovakia…)?

What happened to it in the first years after the war? Was it put on the road again? If yes, in which condition and paint? If not, why not?

The former question is crucial: A complete motorcycle in running condition represented a little fortune anywhere in Europe in the late 1940s. Why would anyone have simply kept it in a shed instead of using, selling, or breaking it for pieces? Of course, it is possible that the new owner was affluent enough or that he was afraid to be seen with military equipment of the former enemy. If that was the case, he may have kept it and even forgotten it, until it was discovered again, maybe in the 1970s when people started to see vintage cars and motorcycles as something worth collecting.

In either case, it should be possible to tell the whole story of such a bike, if it is supposed to be regarded as an unrestored original. In particular, the seller should be able to explain, why some parts are missing (even if the bike was hidden for decades) or why some parts obviously have been added or replaced later (e.g. why the seat and not the tyres?).

If all these questions can be answered in a satisfying manner, I don’t see why one should not congratulate the new owner for his acquisition and hope that he will share as much information and pictures with the NZ community as possible.

But I do not see why it should not be allowed to ask these questions, given all the fakes that are discussed intensively in this forum. Telling someone he should better keep out of the discussion, if he is a sceptic or asking him simply to believe what the high-priests say, is not quite what I expect in a forum of enthusiasts.

If you, Wilhelm, are not able or willing to deal with such questions, then certainly someone else does. Probably, the new owner is able to shed some light on the history and condition of his NZ.

Best regards,
Michael
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Wilhelm_Heidkamp » Sat May 24, 2014 10:15 am

If you would know the cycle market, you would have noticed that not even the registration documents will come with most motorcycles of all types that were off the road for more than 10 years.

Are you envy on the ones who have found or own unrestored bikes (And, of course, in your world there was no NZ250/RT125 at all found in unused condition after being hidden more than 60 years behind a brick wall), hiding it behind the mask of a "non-believer"?

In your opinion all sellers must be cheaters and mockers. But it is simple: You`re wrong.

So stop nagging. Enjoy the bikes.
DKW F 102 1965
DKW NZ 350-1 1945
DKW KL C100/C1 Funkwuerfel 1943
DKW GG400 Funkwuerfel
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by M.Schlenger » Sun May 25, 2014 12:14 am

Hello Wilhelm, again one of these days? What is wrong with you?

If your replies are representative of the kind of "discussion" you were talking about, I am happy to keep out of it.

If you had read my posts thoroughly, you would have noticed that I am simply eager to learn more about the origin and the history of the few original "survivors" which appear to exist.

It may come as a surprise to you, but I do not envy any owner of originally preserved motorcycles (where do get all your prejudices from?), as I am the lucky owner of quite a few myself... I am only aware of the fact that it is way more difficult to obtain German wartime bikes in unrestored, complete and original condition than, say, British or French ones. That's why I tend to be a sceptic, if not a complete denier :-)

But as you appear unwilling to communicate in a polite and reasonable manner, we should close this "discussion".

Thanks anyway,
Michael


Peugeot P 108, 1931, unrestored, original paint, not running
Ultima 100, 1932, unrestored, paint largely original, running
Diamant MF36, 1938, technically restored, original paint, running
DKW NZ 250, 1938, incomplete, repainted, not running
DKW NZ 350, 1938, complete, repainted, running
UT K125, 1948, incomplete, not running
Peugeot P55C, 1949, complete, repainted, not running
Peugeot 202 UH, 1949, technically restored, original paint, running
HWE 98 Record, 1950, unrestored, original paint, not running, confirmed history
AJS 16 MS, 1954, technically restored, original paint, running, confirmed history
IZH 49, 1958, unrestored, original paint, running
Gilera 175 GT Militare, 1958, unrestored, paint largely original, running
MZ RT 125/2, 1958, restored, running
IWL SR59 Berlin, 1960, original paint, not running, confirmed history
FIAT 1100 D, 1964, unrestored, original paint, running, confirmed history
Innocenti Mini Traveller 1967, technically restored, original paint, running
MG 1300 MkII, 1970, unrestored, partially repainted, running
MGB GT, 1974, unrestored, partially repainted, running, confirmed history
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Wilhelm_Heidkamp » Sun May 25, 2014 11:13 pm

Even if you would own a hundred cars more - what`s the issue of telling us about? You can`t buy experience for money.
DKW F 102 1965
DKW NZ 350-1 1945
DKW KL C100/C1 Funkwuerfel 1943
DKW GG400 Funkwuerfel
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by M.Schlenger » Wed May 28, 2014 12:35 am

It's alright, Wilhelm :-)
You've got your experience, and I've got mine.

Regards,
Michael
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Wilhelm_Heidkamp » Wed May 28, 2014 3:58 pm

Sure - if you "I`m always having the last word even when I better should be calm" regard as such.

I leave that to you - have it, it doesn`t necessarily mean you are right in any way.
DKW F 102 1965
DKW NZ 350-1 1945
DKW KL C100/C1 Funkwuerfel 1943
DKW GG400 Funkwuerfel
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Re: Nice 350-1 on ebay

Post by Panama » Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:09 pm

Super find,
congratulations to the new owner with this NZ, I wish a day I can add such well preserved bike to my collection..
@ Michael: To answer on your question: Off course you may have your opinion but before making any unfounded conclusions: I know such well preserved motorcycles ,many are in display in small private Museums and collections without the desire to drive. I know such collections and sometimes a motorcycle is sold and getting technical restored again for other purposes than putting a display puppet on it..
So l hope the new owner will have the kindness to publish more detail photo's even after all the previous comments…

After all,we all might learn do we?

Kind regards,
Panama
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